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Is this flawed logic in hip-hop?
Because of something that came up in another thread and on numerous other occasions I got the idea for this thread.
What exactly is the point of being a good “rapper” if your not making the best music in hip-hop? Better question, how can you be the best rapper if your not making the best music in hip-hop? I personally have Kanye as my #3 best rapper OAT, but I always seem to catch some flack for it.
It’s similar to the idea that the best singer of all time (whoever that is, idk) is not necessarily the person who made the greatest music ever.
For me, I wouldn’t say Kanye is the best rapper ever. Idk who that would be honestly. But I do think that Kanye is the greatest maker of rap music of all time.
It seems to me that there are 2 different ways of deciding/uncovering who the best is. Some people look at it like “out of all these guys that are considered rappers, who makes the best music?” Then others look at it like “out of all these artists, who is the best at rapping?”
i think there are too many opinionated definitions that conflict to get a real answer. People could define the “best rapper” by their lyrics, or how they rap, or how their music sounds in general.
What I think Trane was going by his definition. He probably meant the skill of rapping, coming from his opinion of what he thinks makes a rapper a “good” rapper.
To me, deep lyrics and smooth flow constitute a good rapper. Overall relatability and listenability constitute good music. Just because a rapper has great technical skills doesn’t mean that they make good music that hits you right in the feels. It’s really a controversial topic though. No one has a precise webster definition of “good music”.
Well to start with, the greatness of his music is your opinion. I think Kanye is THE GOAT producer. I rarely hear a Kanye produced track that I don’t like. But it isn’t just about the production. Not for rap. You can’t decide who the best is based on their beats. If Soulja Boy rapped over Gorgeous or Ain’t No Love would he be making fantastic music? No! HELL NO! People would still know it sucks. Kanye makes great music but I also find him SUPER annoying sometimes. Maybe it’s just me but besides Wayne, Kanye is the most annoying rapper ever. Despite that I love a lot of his songs and respect his writing abilities but there are standards for judging a persons talent and Kanye just doesn’t stack up.
You didn’t explain one reason why he deosn’t “stack up”…
@Nimra Of course there is no definition, but based on album sales, ratings, and the types of comments frequently made, it’s easy to tell what’s considered “good music”.
@MyNamesCody which goes back to my point, why do people consider all those little factors, and not look at the outcome, because isn’t making good music what rapping is about?
Since really delving into music these past few months I have been surprised to see that MANY people (not just RG) consider MBDTF one of, if not the greatest hip-hop album of all time, yet I rarely see Ye in GOAT convos. Another example is MF DOOM, who has a large number of highly rated albums, but his name rarely comes up in GOAT convos (might just be because of exposure tho).
Basically what I’m driving at is why are things like lyricism, flow, content, rhyme scheme, and the likes more valued when discussions of the best come up?
Ok, i’m done, not even sure if any of this will make sense lol
A good rapper can make bad music because there’s more to rap music than just the rapping. There’s the beat and the hook, and if both of those are crap then it doesn’t really matter how good the rapper is
@SkyArt “album sales, ratings, and the types of comments frequently made, it’s easy to tell what’s considered “good music”.
sorry, but i HONESTLY dont believe that this can be applied to rap music because i honestly believe that most people have not heard any form of rap other then a hand full that gets cycled through the mainstream/radio
your average person has never heard, brendas got a baby, dance, NY state of mind etc.
“Basically what I’m driving at is why are things like lyricism, flow, content, rhyme scheme, and the likes more valued when discussions of the best come up?”
because thats what makes this genre unique, thats the bread and butter of hip-hop/rap music.
@SkyArt you’re right about MF DOOM. He deserves some recognition but he doesn’t have a lot of impact in the game nor does he have influence. If he didn’t exist it would barely make a difference in the genre as a whole. I put him in my honorable mentions but he doesn’t deserve to be in the top ten because he hasn’t done anything for rap except be fucking awesome! Kanye on the other hand has had a huge impact and influence on the genre but doesn’t have the skill the GOATs have. I would put him in the top 20 or 30 with proper respect to the artists that have made rap what it was up to Kanye’s arrival and the artists who have displayed more skill. I also want to make that clear. It isn’t just about the skill but the skill shown. Kanye should be above Kendrick because he has had 6 albums to show his artistry as opposed to Kendrick’s 3. That is also why I think Hov is #1. He has helped way more than most to make rap what it is today and has had major success over his incredibly long career. But most importantly he has shown everyone his brilliance 12 times. If we stack up the discographies and compare only Nas is in that league. Nas can be #1 too I don’t care which one is but they should be 1 and 2.
I believe what makes a good rapper is a little less subjective (even though it certainly is). Most people would agree that someone like Nas is a better rapper than Chief Keef. However, depending on your preference, you are free to like either.
This may be a far fetched comparison, but compare rappers to painters. One may argue that making hyper realistic paintings, such as this:
take a lot of skill and effort. That doesn’t necessarily mean you like it, as you can prefer more simple, abstract or just different art.
@ChloeMoretzStan that is a valid point but judging talent is a genre specific requirement. Painting is more subjective because it is more difficult to judge than rapping technique is. A better comparison would be to literature where people who show incredible technique such as Shakespeare and and Poe are well respected and those who write more interesting pieces that show less skill, such as many novel writers today, will be appreciated but not not revered.
Well you can definitely judge a good painter from a bad one and I said it was a far fetched comparison.
If you talk about writers you get the exact same problem as with rap. Subjectiveness and preference will come into discussion once again…
For Kanye you also have to factor in that his rhymes are helped, that is what I think the context behind the OP’s comment was.
@kazann Your a fucking idiot. Your post is so fucking irrelevant I actually felt the need to fucking swear a lot more than I fucking do. Fucking idiot…
@Jay-Hovas_Witness That post is so contradictory, and it gives me the feeling a if you either didn’t read my post or didn’t understand a fucking word.